diff --git a/packages/server/src/server/managed-processes/managed-processes.ts b/packages/server/src/server/managed-processes/managed-processes.ts
index 1de767586f..01eecf893d 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/server/managed-processes/managed-processes.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/server/managed-processes/managed-processes.ts
@@ -158,7 +158,7 @@ class SystemManagedProcessTable implements ManagedProcessTable {
     // The identity query can fail on every call on some machines (a broken Windows PowerShell,
     // a policy that refuses to start it). Whether the pid is running at all needs no query, so
     // a gone process still reads as gone there and its records can be retired.
-    if (inspection.status === "error" && !processExists(pid)) return { status: "not-found" };
+    if (inspection.status === "error" && !isProcessAlive(pid)) return { status: "not-found" };
     return inspection;
   }
 
@@ -448,18 +448,9 @@ export function createPidTarget(pid: number): TreeKillTarget {
   };
 }
 
-function isProcessAlive(pid: number): boolean {
-  try {
-    process.kill(pid, 0);
-    return true;
-  } catch (error) {
-    return isNodeErrorWithCode(error, "EPERM");
-  }
-}
-
 // Signal 0 checks that the pid exists without signaling it: ESRCH means no such process, EPERM
 // means one that belongs to someone else.
-function processExists(pid: number): boolean {
+function isProcessAlive(pid: number): boolean {
   try {
     process.kill(pid, 0);
     return true;
diff --git a/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-client.test.ts b/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-client.test.ts
index 01a4dd91d3..119d339b18 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-client.test.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-client.test.ts
@@ -4,7 +4,13 @@ import { tmpdir } from "node:os";
 import path from "node:path";
 import { isPlatform } from "../test-utils/platform.js";
 import { encodeFrame, FrameDecoder, TerminalWorkerFrameError } from "./terminal-worker-frames.js";
-import { connectTerminalWorker, TerminalWorkerConnectError } from "./terminal-worker-client.js";
+import { createConnection, createServer, type Server } from "node:net";
+import { randomUUID } from "node:crypto";
+import {
+  connectTerminalWorker,
+  probeTerminalWorkerSocket,
+  TerminalWorkerConnectError,
+} from "./terminal-worker-client.js";
 import { launchTerminalWorker } from "./terminal-worker-launch.js";
 import { terminalWorkerRecordPath } from "./terminal-worker-record.js";
 
@@ -74,7 +80,6 @@ describe("terminal worker authentication", () => {
 });
 
 it("bounds a stalled framed writer to one chunk and resumes in order", async () => {
-  const { createServer, createConnection } = await import("node:net");
   const { attachFramedSocket } = await import("./terminal-worker-frames.js");
   const server = createServer();
   await new Promise<void>((resolve) => server.listen(0, "127.0.0.1", resolve));
@@ -115,3 +120,41 @@ it("bounds a stalled framed writer to one chunk and resumes in order", async ()
     await new Promise<void>((resolve) => server.close(() => resolve()));
   }
 });
+
+// The probe decides whether a live pid named by an unidentifiable worker record is still the
+// worker. A refused answer retires the record, so it must hold for a Windows named pipe too.
+describe("terminal worker socket probe", () => {
+  function socketPath(): string {
+    if (isPlatform("win32")) return `\\\\.\\pipe\\paseo-tw-probe-${randomUUID()}`;
+    const directory = mkdtempSync(path.join(tmpdir(), "tw-probe-"));
+    temporaryDirs.push(directory);
+    return path.join(directory, "w.sock");
+  }
+
+  async function serve(at: string): Promise<Server> {
+    const server = createServer((socket) => socket.on("error", () => {}));
+    await new Promise<void>((resolve) => server.listen(at, resolve));
+    return server;
+  }
+
+  it("answers accepting while a worker serves the socket", async () => {
+    const at = socketPath();
+    const server = await serve(at);
+    try {
+      expect(await probeTerminalWorkerSocket(at)).toBe("accepting");
+    } finally {
+      await new Promise((resolve) => server.close(resolve));
+    }
+  });
+
+  it("answers refused for a socket nobody ever served", async () => {
+    expect(await probeTerminalWorkerSocket(socketPath())).toBe("refused");
+  });
+
+  it("answers refused once the worker that served the socket closed it", async () => {
+    const at = socketPath();
+    const server = await serve(at);
+    await new Promise((resolve) => server.close(resolve));
+    expect(await probeTerminalWorkerSocket(at)).toBe("refused");
+  });
+});
diff --git a/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-reaper.test.ts b/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-reaper.test.ts
index b691afcbf7..f46ed07b1f 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-reaper.test.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-reaper.test.ts
@@ -724,6 +724,26 @@ describe.skipIf(isPlatform("win32"))("terminal worker reaper without process ide
     expect(existsSync(recordPath)).toBe(false);
   });
 
+  it("does not look up the children of a gone program recorded without a birth time", async () => {
+    const home = makeHome();
+    const recordPath = writeRecord(home, {
+      pid: await goneProcessPid(),
+      identity: { unavailable: "ps unavailable" },
+      terminals: [{ id: "t1", pid: await goneProcessPid(), startedAt: null }],
+    });
+    // Linux reports sessions, so a gone program with a birth time would be walked through the
+    // process table, which this machine cannot read.
+    const linuxWithoutPs = createTerminalWorkerProcessInspector({
+      platform: "linux",
+      commandRunner: { exec: () => Promise.reject(new Error("spawn ps ENOENT")) },
+    });
+
+    const result = await reapTerminalWorkers({ paseoHome: home, inspector: linuxWithoutPs });
+
+    expect(result).toEqual({ records: 1, retired: 1, signaled: [] });
+    expect(existsSync(recordPath)).toBe(false);
+  });
+
   it("never signals a live terminal program recorded without a birth time", async () => {
     const home = makeHome();
     const program = spawnIdle();
diff --git a/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-reaper.ts b/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-reaper.ts
index e29f5da97a..9ea2e64013 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-reaper.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/terminal/terminal-worker-reaper.ts
@@ -39,7 +39,8 @@ import {
 //    table cannot be read, nothing in the record is signaled: ending a program would reparent
 //    the children only the table can find, and a retry could never reach them again.
 // 2. An owned worker, or one its process cannot identify, gets an authenticated `shutdown`: it
-//    kills each terminal and waits for it.
+//    kills each terminal and waits for it. A worker that cannot be identified gets it even when
+//    the caller skips the grace period, since nothing else can stop it.
 // 3. After `gracefulMs`, SIGKILL whatever owned process is left, re-inspecting right before
 //    each signal.
 // 4. Succeed only when every candidate is gone or proven unrelated. Otherwise keep a record of
@@ -266,14 +267,11 @@ async function reapRecord(
     return await keepUnresolved(input, tracked, [], `not signaled: ${discovery.tableError}`);
   }
 
-  // The shutdown request authenticates with the record's secret, so a worker that cannot be
-  // identified by its process is asked too: only the worker that wrote the record can answer.
-  // It is never signaled.
-  const askShutdown = isOpen(tracked.worker) && input.gracefulMs > 0;
-  if (askShutdown) {
-    await requestWorkerShutdown(record, input.gracefulMs, log);
+  const shutdownMs = shutdownWindow(tracked.worker, input.gracefulMs);
+  if (shutdownMs > 0) {
+    await requestWorkerShutdown(record, shutdownMs, log);
   }
-  await waitUntilSettled(tracked, Date.now() + (askShutdown ? input.gracefulMs : 0));
+  await waitUntilSettled(tracked, Date.now() + shutdownMs);
 
   let signaled: number[] = [];
   if (!isSettled(tracked)) {
@@ -284,6 +282,17 @@ async function reapRecord(
   return await keepUnresolved(input, tracked, signaled, null);
 }
 
+// How long the worker gets to answer an authenticated `shutdown` and exit. An owned worker gets
+// the grace period before SIGKILL, and none when the caller skips it. The request authenticates
+// with the record's secret, so a worker its process cannot identify is asked too: only the worker
+// that wrote the record can answer. It is never signaled, so it is asked on every cleanup,
+// retries without a grace period included.
+function shutdownWindow(worker: ProcessOwnership, gracefulMs: number): number {
+  if (worker.status === "owned") return gracefulMs;
+  if (worker.status === "unknown") return Math.max(gracefulMs, DEFAULT_GRACEFUL_MS);
+  return 0;
+}
+
 // Retires the record when every process it names is settled; otherwise writes the cleanup
 // record, marked closing, with only the unresolved entries. A live worker keeps rewriting its
 // own record, so the closing state never goes there. `notSignaled` explains open processes that
@@ -460,8 +469,12 @@ async function collectCandidates(
   // already gone: the kernel keeps a session id reserved while a member lives, so a job the
   // shell left behind is still found. A pid reused by another process (unrelated) leads someone
   // else's session and is never walked.
+  // A program recorded without a birth time is never walked: the worker could not read the
+  // process table when it started it, so the walk would only keep the cleanup unconfirmed.
   const roots = Array.from(candidates.values()).filter(
-    (c) => c.state.status === "owned" || (c.state.status === "gone" && inspector.reportsSessions),
+    (c) =>
+      c.state.status === "owned" ||
+      (c.state.status === "gone" && c.startedAt !== null && inspector.reportsSessions),
   );
   if (roots.length === 0) return { candidates: Array.from(candidates.values()), tableError: null };
 
diff --git a/packages/server/src/terminal/worker-terminal-manager.test.ts b/packages/server/src/terminal/worker-terminal-manager.test.ts
index 72f0ae6692..adf7ce6517 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/terminal/worker-terminal-manager.test.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/terminal/worker-terminal-manager.test.ts
@@ -61,6 +61,7 @@ import {
   listTerminalWorkerRecords,
   readTerminalWorkerRecord,
   terminalWorkerDirectory,
+  terminalWorkerLogPath,
   terminalWorkerRecordPath,
   writeTerminalWorkerRecord,
   type TerminalWorkerRecord,
@@ -74,7 +75,7 @@ import {
   TerminalWorkerIncompatibleError,
 } from "./terminal-worker-pool.js";
 import { connectTerminalWorker } from "./terminal-worker-client.js";
-import { launchTerminalWorker } from "./terminal-worker-launch.js";
+import { launchTerminalWorker, TerminalWorkerLaunchError } from "./terminal-worker-launch.js";
 import { currentBootId } from "../server/pid-lock.js";
 import { spawn } from "node:child_process";
 
@@ -2678,6 +2679,24 @@ it.each([false, true])(
   45000,
 );
 
+// #8810: a worker that cannot start must not take the daemon down. The launcher cannot open its
+// log here (a directory sits at its path), so the launch fails before any worker runs.
+it("starts without a worker when the worker cannot start, and launches one once it can", async () => {
+  const paseoHome = createTemporaryHome();
+  const logPath = terminalWorkerLogPath(paseoHome);
+  mkdirSync(logPath);
+
+  manager = await startRealWorkerManager({ paseoHome });
+  expect(await workerRecords(paseoHome)).toEqual([]);
+  await expect(
+    manager.createTerminal({ workspaceId: "ws-no-worker", cwd: paseoHome }),
+  ).rejects.toThrow(TerminalWorkerLaunchError);
+
+  rmSync(logPath, { recursive: true });
+  trackTerminal(await manager.createTerminal({ workspaceId: "ws-no-worker", cwd: paseoHome }));
+  expect(await workerRecords(paseoHome)).toHaveLength(1);
+}, 30000);
+
 // Both Windows reports (#8766, #8784): the process identity query (Windows PowerShell there,
 // `ps` here) cannot run at all. Terminals work anyway; only what cleanup may signal degrades.
 // The fake `ps` dies by a signal, so the query fails the way a process that cannot be created
@@ -2804,6 +2823,37 @@ it.skipIf(isPlatform("win32"))(
   30000,
 );
 
+// A retry of an unconfirmed cleanup, and startup cleanup, run without a grace period. For a
+// worker that cannot be identified the shutdown request is the only way it can be stopped.
+it.skipIf(isPlatform("win32"))(
+  "closes a worker whose identity is unavailable from a cleanup without a grace period",
+  async () => {
+    const paseoHome = createTemporaryHome();
+    const restorePath = withoutProcessIdentity();
+    try {
+      const previous = await startRealWorkerManager({ paseoHome });
+      await previous.createTerminal({
+        workspaceId: "ws-no-identity",
+        cwd: paseoHome,
+        ...nodeTerminalCommand("setInterval(() => {}, 1000);"),
+      });
+      const [record] = await workerRecords(paseoHome);
+      const programPid = record!.terminals[0]!.pid;
+      await previous.detach();
+
+      const result = await reapTerminalWorkers({ paseoHome, gracefulMs: 0 });
+
+      expect(result.signaled).toEqual([]);
+      expect(isProcessAlive(programPid)).toBe(false);
+      expect(await listTerminalWorkerRecords(paseoHome)).toEqual([]);
+      await waitForCondition(() => !isProcessAlive(record!.pid), 5000);
+    } finally {
+      restorePath();
+    }
+  },
+  30000,
+);
+
 it.skipIf(isPlatform("win32"))(
   "launches a worker past records of workers that are gone, when no identity can be read",
   async () => {